Ma se la soglia non esiste...
- Creatore Discussione folinhouse
- Data di inizio
- Watchers 15
interessante Q/A sull''argomento da parte di Dirk Friel (fratello del più famoso Joe Friel)
fonte http://www.ultrafit.com/newsletter/december99.html
Q: I train by max heart rate. I'm kind of hesitant to have someone do lactate threshold testing for me as it might not be accurate. How do you make sure the test is accurate?-C.N.
A: About your concern over LT testing: I don't use charts based on max HR and I'll explain below. Before I do though, let me say that cycling training technology is growing beyond this dilemma with the introduction of power meters, such as the Power-Tap unit. Measuring training load by wattage reduces the need for heart rate monitoring. Power monitoring also clearly supports my training philosophy. The training zones based on max HR that I have seen all assume your threshold is a certain percentage of max HR. I find it impossible that every person has their LT at the same percentage of max HR. Especially knowing that LT changes throughout the year. That in itself means the system of basing LT off max HR must be inaccurate. One component of cycling fitness is what percentage of max HR is your LT. Would you agree that your LT is lower now than it would be at your peak? If you agree that LT changes with fitness, then charts based on max HR assume your fitness never changes and so therefore why train at all? So which would you rather have? You can have a conventional LT or anaerobic test done, which is fairly accurate when performed by experienced staff, or continue to use a system that is itself inaccurate. I can relate to your hesitation in trusting someone's opinion on your LT measurement. Results can always be fine tuned and adjusted through racing and training. But also consider it doesn't really matter if you can walk away from the clinic with results in hand and therefore have the ability to compare future test results to make a more accurate profile of your physiology. That is the real value of LT/AT testing-the ability to collect your own fitness history and track progression. It also educates you about your own limits. That, in itself, is invaluable during competition. So if you do decide to get tested at a physiology lab, make sure you leave with the raw data (including work loads) so you can compare future tests. The winner is often the one who knows his abilities the best, not always the one with the best abilities.-Dirk Friel
fonte http://www.ultrafit.com/newsletter/december99.html
Q: I train by max heart rate. I'm kind of hesitant to have someone do lactate threshold testing for me as it might not be accurate. How do you make sure the test is accurate?-C.N.
A: About your concern over LT testing: I don't use charts based on max HR and I'll explain below. Before I do though, let me say that cycling training technology is growing beyond this dilemma with the introduction of power meters, such as the Power-Tap unit. Measuring training load by wattage reduces the need for heart rate monitoring. Power monitoring also clearly supports my training philosophy. The training zones based on max HR that I have seen all assume your threshold is a certain percentage of max HR. I find it impossible that every person has their LT at the same percentage of max HR. Especially knowing that LT changes throughout the year. That in itself means the system of basing LT off max HR must be inaccurate. One component of cycling fitness is what percentage of max HR is your LT. Would you agree that your LT is lower now than it would be at your peak? If you agree that LT changes with fitness, then charts based on max HR assume your fitness never changes and so therefore why train at all? So which would you rather have? You can have a conventional LT or anaerobic test done, which is fairly accurate when performed by experienced staff, or continue to use a system that is itself inaccurate. I can relate to your hesitation in trusting someone's opinion on your LT measurement. Results can always be fine tuned and adjusted through racing and training. But also consider it doesn't really matter if you can walk away from the clinic with results in hand and therefore have the ability to compare future test results to make a more accurate profile of your physiology. That is the real value of LT/AT testing-the ability to collect your own fitness history and track progression. It also educates you about your own limits. That, in itself, is invaluable during competition. So if you do decide to get tested at a physiology lab, make sure you leave with the raw data (including work loads) so you can compare future tests. The winner is often the one who knows his abilities the best, not always the one with the best abilities.-Dirk Friel
non sono d'accordo.
Secondo Joe Friel (e penso che abbia ragione) le zone sono queste:
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/trainingplans/ericschwartz/trainingintensity.
domani se ti interessa posso postare le % in base alle quali lui definisce le varie soglie, comunque 80% della soglia anaerobica (che lui chiama Lactate Threshold, LT) corrisponde al "tempo" ossia a quello che spesso viene chiamato "medio".
trovi qualcosa qui. http://www.performancetrainingsystems.com/newstips/pdf/Heart-Rate-Based-Training.pdf
qui http://www.cliftoncc.org/static.php?content=training_hr qualche esempio su come calcolare le soglie in base ai valori di un test di soglia "fai-da-te"
non c'è bisogno di aspettare domani, più o meno i valori in base ai quali ricavare le soglie secondo friel sono descritti qua:
http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/beinginthezone.html
http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/beinginthezone.html
In pratica dice che dovresti imparare a conoscerti (quindi capire cosa vuol dire allenarsi) giustissimo, ma qui la maggior parte della gente vuole la vita comoda: pago, tu mi dici cosa devo fare - sbagliatissimo.
Non sono d'accordo però che il PT sottolinei ORA che non basta l'HR.
Che l'HR non basti, son d'accordo, ma che i WATT sostituiscano, no.
i valori percentuali tirati fuori proprio da Cyclingpeaks, ergo trainingpeaks= 70/85% lungo, 85/95% medio, 95/100% veloce.
questo link mi pare meglio ancora, in pratica c'è il bignami del libro di Friel 
http://www.computrainer.com/html/manuals/Joe Friel Manual.pdf
http://www.computrainer.com/html/manuals/Joe Friel Manual.pdf
Si sono sempre piu' convinto che la frequenza cardiaca sia un parametro poco attendibile sopratutto su sogetti ben allenati.
Piu' attendibile il misuratore di potenza.
Al riguardo un po' di tempo fa leggevo che associato con il
misuratore di watt andrebbe monitorato il tasso di testosterone
sopratutto al mattino, ma non mi ricordo dove l'ho letto
Piu' attendibile il misuratore di potenza.
Al riguardo un po' di tempo fa leggevo che associato con il
misuratore di watt andrebbe monitorato il tasso di testosterone
sopratutto al mattino, ma non mi ricordo dove l'ho letto
Si sono sempre piu' convinto che la frequenza cardiaca sia un parametro poco attendibile sopratutto su sogetti ben allenati.
Piu' attendibile il misuratore di potenza.
Al riguardo un po' di tempo fa leggevo che associato con il
misuratore di watt andrebbe monitorato il tasso di testosterone
sopratutto al mattino, ma non mi ricordo dove l'ho letto
Mr. Baga__
lei viene il 23 a fare "colli alti" da Romano?
domani mi alleno e se non ti tengo le ruote mi taglio il ........
Mr. Baga__
lei viene il 23 a fare "colli alti" da Romano?
domani mi alleno e se non ti tengo le ruote mi taglio il ........
Si credo di si se non sono stanco visto che devo correre anche
la Prosecco
A volte la frequenza cardiaca non coincide con la velocità a cui si vorrebbe andare,soprattutto se si ha nelle gambe già parecchi km percorsi e i battiti stentano a scendere.Succede spesso anche a me,il recupero va da uno all' altro
