Training and Racing with a Power Meter (parte seconda)

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ibiziano

ibiziano

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Ok, grazie, proverò a cercare anch'io, ma la cosa che forse non viene analizzata è come modificando la cadenza autoscelta cambia il reclutamento delle fibre. Questo mi incuriosisce abbastanza. Non sarebbe male saperlo, per poter magari impostare meglio lavori più specifici.
Grazie come sempre Roberto
 
Roberto Massa

Roberto Massa

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In this study, we examined patterns of leg muscle recruitment and co-activation, and the relationship between muscle recruitment and cadence, in highly trained cyclists. Electromyographic (EMG) activity of the tibialis anterior, tibialis posterior, peroneus longus, gastrocnemius lateralis and soleus was recorded using intramuscular electrodes, at individual preferred cadence, 57.5, 77.5 and 92.5 rev . min(-1). The influence of electrode type and location on recorded EMG was also investigated using surface and dual intramuscular recordings. Muscle recruitment patterns varied from those previously reported, but there was little variation in muscle recruitment between these highly trained cyclists. The tibialis posterior, peroneus longus and soleus were recruited in a single, short burst of activity during the downstroke. The tibialis anterior and gastrocnemius lateralis were recruited in a biphasic and alternating manner. Contrary to existing hypotheses, our results indicate little co-activation between the tibialis posterior and peroneus longus. Peak EMG amplitude increased linearly with cadence and did not decrease at individual preferred cadence. There was little variation in patterns of muscle recruitment or co-activation with changes in cadence.
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cioè
1) il reclutamento è lineare all'intensità, fibre I contribuiscono ad un variare fisso compreso tra 40 e 50% dell'apporto totale rispetto a % Vo2max; per esempio @ 50% Vo2max il contributo totale è a carico di queste fibre; @ 90% la distribuzione è 50% circa fibre I, 30% fibre IIa, 10% fibre IIx.
2) il reclutamento è variabile a seconda del muscolo singolarmente analizzato (mediante EMG), ma in generale il reclutamento di un più ampio spettro di unità motorie soggiace gerarchicamente ad a)intensità e b)superamento di una cadenza di "comfort" che inevitabilmente è più economica e che ricade in un maggior reclutamento di fibre I
 
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NEMBO96

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Roberto Massa ha scritto:
2^ edizione
pag 130, fig 7.5 "Fiber type recruitment as a function of intensity"
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Parlando di questa tabella io capisco che:

- si sta parlando di potenza espressa a qualsiasi cadenza, per cui che io mi alleni in Z4 alta o Z5 ad alte o a basse frequenze di pedalata, sempre andrò ad utilizzare tutti i vari tipi di fibre muscolari;
- le fibre I sono utilizzate sempre;
- le fibre IIa si attivano in maggior misura oltre il 50% del VO2Max
- le fibre più veloci, le IIx, si attivano dal 75% del VO2Max



Per cui facendo riferimento al mio discorso di allenare la forza in Z5 a cadenze tra le 60/70 va bene?



Ditemi se ho capito bene
o-o
 
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Roberto Massa

Roberto Massa

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parziale OT
qualcuno (Grappe & Pinot) ha usato informazioni e concetti di questo libro....presentandoli come assolutamente "NUOVI" in pubblicazioni internazionali :wacko:

January 27, 2012

To the editors and readers of the International Journal of Sports Medicine:

I read with interest the paper by Pinot and Grappe (1) (which, rather ironically, begins “Training and racing with a powermeter…”) that was recently published in this journal. In this study, the relative strengths and weaknesses of nine professional and eight elite cyclists were assessed based on the maximum power they could produce over various durations, which Pinot and Grappe termed their record power profile (RPP). It was demonstrated that although there were no significant differences in power output between the professional and elite cyclists, the precise shape of the power-duration relationship varied between athletes depending upon their competitive specialization, i.e., sprinters vs. climbers vs. flat-land specialists. Pinot and Grappe therefore concluded that “the RPP represents ‘a signature‘ of the cyclists’ physical capacity” that “appears as a new (emphasis added) concept that is interesting for coaches and scientists in order to evaluate performance in cycling.”

In contrast to Pinot and Grappe’s assertion above, the logic, general approach, and even most of the terminology used in this study are in fact essentially identical to my concept of power profiling, which I first publically shared in 2003 via an article posted to the CyclingPeaks (now TrainingPeaks) website (http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspxhttp://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-profiling.aspx) . This idea has subsequently been presented and discussed at numerous lay and scientific meetings in the U.S. and other countries, been incorporated into commercially-available software (i.e., TrainingPeaks’ WKO+), and has been described in detail in both the 1st edition (2) and 2nd editions (3) of our book, the latter of which has been translated into two additional languages (4,5). Notably, this concept has routinely been illustrated with numerous examples drawn from actual athletes of widely differing abilities, e.g., by comparing the power profiles of elite track sprint cyclists with those of elite road cyclists. Furthermore, this idea is inextricably related to the power-based training levels (“zones” to Pinot and Grappe) that I first proposed in 2001, as both are anchored relative to the cyclist’s actual performance ability (or to quote Pinot and Grappe (1): “come(s) from performances performed in the field by cyclists on their personal bikes”). Thus, the only difference between Pinot and Grappe’s RPP and my concept of power profiling is a trivial one, i.e., they relied on mathematical curve-fitting and graphical analysis of the data to characterize each athlete’s relative strength and weaknesses, whereas my approach relies upon referencing the cyclist’s actual power-duration relationship to a table of normative values.

It is unequivocal that Pinot and Grappe were fully aware of my concept of power profiling, as 1) they used the WKO+ program to analyze their data and more importantly 2) Pinot discussed my idea in detail, cited my original web-based article linked above, and even reproduced my original Excel-generated power profiling table in his 2010 master’s thesis (6), which was supervised by Grappe. Yet, in their manuscript they did not cite this prior relevant work, instead pretending that their RPP was a completely novel idea! As such, they are indisputably guilty of plagiarism as defined by the Council of Science Editors: "the appropriation of another person’s ideas [. . . ] without giving appropriate credit" (7). I therefore urge you in the strongest possible manner to retract the paper and to sanction Pinot and Grappe for their grossly unethical behavior.

Sincerely,

Andrew R. Coggan, Ph.D., FACSM
Cardiovascular Imaging Laboratory, Mallinckrodt Institute of Radiology
Department of Radiology
Washington University School of Medicine
St. Louis, MO 63110
*******@mir.wustl.edu

References:

1. Pinot J, Grappe F. The Record Power Profile to Assess Performance in Elite Cyclists. Int J Sports Med 2011; 32: 839-844.

2. Allen H, Coggan AR. Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Boulder, CO: Inside Communications/VeloPress, 2006, 231 pages. ISBN-13: 978-1-931382-79-3.

3. Allen H, Coggan AR. Training and Racing with a Power Meter, 2nd Edition. Boulder, CO: Inside Communications/VeloPress, 2010, 344 pages. ISBN-13: 978-1-934030-55-4.

4. Allen H, Coggan AR. パワー・トレーニング・バイブル .Tokyo, JP: Overlander, 2011, 408 pages. ISBN-13: 978-4-950315-00-1.

5. Allen H, Coggan AR. Wattmessung im Radsport und Triathlon. Hamburg, DE: spomedis GmbH, 2012, 350 pages. ISBN-13: 978-3-936376-73-9.

6. Pinot J. 2010. Le Profil de Puissance R. Une nouvelle méthode d’analyse du potentiel physique du cycliste [thesis]. [Besançon, FR]: Universite de Franche Comte. Accessed December 7, 2011 from http://www.fredericgrappe.com/CV/mémoires/pinot4.pdfhttp://www.fredericgrappe.com/CV/mémoires/pinot4.pdf.

7. Scott-Lichter D and the Editorial Policy Committee, Council of Science Editors. CSE’s White Paper on Promoting Integrity in Scientific Journal Publications, 2009 Update. Reston, VA: 2009. Accessed December 8, 2011 from http://www.councilscienceeditors.org/services/policies.cfmhttp://www.councilscienceeditors.org/services/policies.cfm."
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Little58

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mi piacerebbe!
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Scaramaccai

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.........diciamo che ho l' SRM , carino ...divertente .....ma ora come faccio ha spremerlo ?? anzi ha spremermi ??

Ho letto un pò di pagine ma voi ormai andate avanti a simboli Z3, Z5 Z4 etc etc .....ci capisco veramente poco .

Da che parte mi rifaccio ??
 
saurox

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Scaramaccai ha scritto:
.........diciamo che ho l' SRM , carino ...divertente .....ma ora come faccio ha spremerlo ?? anzi ha spremermi ??

Ho letto un pò di pagine ma voi ormai andate avanti a simboli Z3, Z5 Z4 etc etc .....ci capisco veramente poco .

Da che parte mi rifaccio ??
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Una copia del "libro" sarebbe utile poi ...

Qualche link ....


[url]http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx[/URL]

[url]http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2011/02/prediction-of-muscle-fiber-type-from.html[/URL]
 
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Scaramaccai

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gerardo61

gerardo61

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ce l'ho
saurox ha scritto:
Una copia del "libro" sarebbe utile poi ...

Qualche link ....


http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx[url]http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx[/URL]

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2011/02/prediction-of-muscle-fiber-type-from.html[url]http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2011/02/prediction-of-muscle-fiber-type-from.html[/URL]
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Scaramaccai ha scritto:
Intanto grazie , ma è tutto in inglese ........parlo poco l Italiano....;nonzo%
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TonyTpb ha scritto:
Per cominciare potresti investire ancora qualche centinaio di euro e prendere un preparatore se vuoi provvisorio in modo da avere un idea di come funziona e di calcolo ftp ,altrimenti a mio avviso l' srm serve a poco o-o
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Hai un PM
al buon Tony e Saurox aggiungo che se ti aiuta un buon coach abbrevi notevolmente i tempi di comprensione di questa materia.
Tutto quello che trovi in letteratura è rigorosamente in Inglese e se, come hai dichiarato, fai fatica a comprenderlo, ti converebbe nella prima fase farti guidare da una persona "competente" sui misuratori di potenza.
Benvenuto in questo mondo affascinante
o-o
 
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